I guess you could call them exactly the same if you think going back to back alley abortions and freedom of choice are the same thing. Romney is way out of touch with reality. Do you really want no access to birth control? Because everyone knows that if you don't teach people how not to get pregnant, then their biological urges to have sex will disappear. Right? Not.

Your vote won't count - why not vote for Romney who WILL be different? He is a businessman and know what it takes to create jobs. Was a great governor and turned the failing Olympics around.

Hey Laurie....Mitt "saved" the Olympics by getting the millions of dollars needed from the US Government!!

winston: I'm not so sure romney will win. there are many of US who dont want a super rich guy in the white house. they are disconnected from our struggles and money problems. they claim they understand- as their money stays protected in foreign bank accounts.

I'm glad you're not voting Dem or Rep. Your vote is not wasted. I dont vote for either party currently. There are other men/parties who are more qualified.

No vote is a wasted vote.

Hi Laurie
I believe every vote cast will count. I urge you-don't believe what candidates/polititions say-look at how they have VOTED on issues/bills in the PAST. If you do this and compare Obama & Romney, you will find that they are both Socialist.
Take care.

I just have to ask. Is Winston Smith actually your name, or is it a reference to Orwell's protagonist in 1984?

Sheeple, Our country is at stake, and all both parties want to do is argue about abortion? are you F#$%ing kidding me? This IS and always will be there Diversion to REAL issues! like the Economic Collapse that Both Rep. and Dem. parties have contributed to over decades now. WAKE UP. WINSTON I am with you on this one. Libertarian Party is the best choice. I am ashamed of all that did what the media wanted and disregard Dr. Ron Paul. He wasnt out spending our tax dollars on his campaign, cant be said for the Reps. and Dems. fine example of government spending recklessly. You are a fool Laurie...lol Do you know what kind of "Business" that man specialized in? We know he is a liar!

Saving the auto industry is driving our country toward economic collapse???? Please. You think Romney cares about the middle class? You're very wrong.

Music Fan,
President Obama did not save the "auto Industry", he saved GM, Chrysler and the UAW. Those two companies comprise only a portion of the auto industry in America. All the other companies got no bailout and did not need one.

Obummer is about saving unions. That is what is bringing our nation down. Look at education - he is playing to the unions, not the teachers.

music fan how did they save ford ??? ford never took a penny and they are in the best shape of all 3
and this is being swept under the rug (1 billion in GM pensions cut from gm delphi workers) http://www.c-span.org/Events/Former-Auto-Czar-Testifies-About-Delphi-Pension-Fund-Bailout/10737432206/

NOT TO MENTION that GM still owes us (the taxpayers) 20 billion yet from the bailout

I understand how you feel, but unfortunately every write in vote is a lost vote. We need to select either Romney or Obama -- which is the only way our vote will count towards anything.

here you go bill http://www.drink-coupons.com/kool-aid/

Lol, Jean - my thoughts exactly.

Obama has proven to be the empty suit (empty chair) we who did our homework on him back in 2008, knew all along.

Bill got landslide right...only it's for Romney/ Ryan....the one's who will save America from the entitlement over-spending.

yes that was a very racist statement

i'm just showing you how to simply come out and say it. just admit it - y'all don't like having a black man as president.

after the lynching the news hacks did to Herman Cain (who would have won the party nod) and my vote and Paxton save the race card it does not work on us (since you have admitted in past posts that YOU ARE WHITE)

Paxton, you are so wrong about your statement that I just don't want a black man to be president. I proudly voted for Obama in 2008 and had high hopes that he would honor all (or at least most) of his promises. Unfortunately, he may have had good intentions, as did the millions of fair minded-people who voted for him -- but he has not honored his promises and it is time for a change. I do not vote for party, race, religion, or anything other than the best person to help lead our great country and represent all Americans. I think the majority of Americans feel the same way I do.

@ jean - cain wasn't lynched by the media, he was exposed to be an adulterer and to have lifted his tax plan from the SIMS game. and i'm not "playing" the race card, i'm simply stating the obvious.

Paxton - your statement that I don't like having a black man is not only based upon no evidence whatsoever, it is a racist statement.

Paxton, I have a few question. Would you vote for a Hispanic? How about an Asian? Do you only vote for half of Obama?

If memory serves me correctly a rather famous person once said something about the content of one's character being important, not the color of their skin.

Just dropped in from NorCal after taking a look around other Patch sites. Wow, you folks must be proud! A complete throwback to Colonial thinking. How does a redneck cretan like Crenshaw still exist?
The depth and breadth to this moron's ignorance is mind boggling. Most of these peabrains keep their hatred to themselves, but this knuckle-dragger is stupid and proud of it. No wonder you all moved to California. Shame on all of you and to the local editor for allowing such statements.
And save the whining about free speech. He's a hate monger and his statement is criminal as well as ignorant!

If Mitt Romney were black would you be inclined to vote for him? I am not a racist but I believe that Mr. Obama although a nice man, 4 more years of what is happening now, isn't the best solution for the USA.

Hmmm - interesting that you say that - what exactly would you call that happened at the DNC? First, God and Jerusalem purposely left out and then hastily added when he saw how upset most of the country was. Classic flip flop.

Well. tut tut, yourself!

http://www.drink-coupons.com/kool-aid/

yep - Romney, like all Republican presidents before him, only cares about the rich and big business interests. The numbers show that the economy always goes bust under a Republican administration, and improves under Democratic ones. What else do you need to know?

The trickle up theory never works or middle out. You have to have the people with money and ideals to make the bussines and the jobs. The trickle down system works it is called capitalism and it makes this country grow. We need to stop surprising the free market. We should think all those American's that start the companies we work for.

Ronald, you Sir are correct!

You are right -- to a point. President Obama has used his "Executive Priviledge" too many times to override the Congress, and even to override our Constitution and federal laws. He has disregarded our laws and Constitution and overridden Congress. Heck, he even tried to unduely influence the Supreme Court. He is governing more like a dictator or king than a freely elected official.

Also, the Democratic Senators have shelved over 50 valid bills passed by the House Republicans. Heck the Senate and the President have not even passed a budget since Obama was elected. But the final decison when bi-partisan bills do get through both House and Senate, is the President's veto powers -- which he threatens to use all the time. When the Senate and the President are both on the same page, it is impossible for the House to get anything accomplished. That is why we need to elect Romney AND a Republican Senate -- then we can see some positive changes.

uh, president obama has invoked executive privilege once [in june 2012 during the fast and furious controversy.]

george w. bush used it six times, including two times to keep his aides from testifying about why he fired seven u.s. attorneys and whether political considerations played a role—a scandal that resulted in the resignations of nine doj officials including the attorney general himself. And once to keep from handing over documents about a criminal investigation into the valerie plame leak

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2012/06/20/history_of_presidential_use_of_executive_privilege/

Clinton fired every US attorney when he took office - where was the outrage from the left or the media? Bush let seven go and it was like it was unprecedented. It was a partisan witch hunt.

In addition to Russel's comment regarding Obama using executive privilege only once, he has only vetoed two bills. One was regarding notarization. The other stopped expenditures. And, both failed congressional override.

By comparison, Bush Jr. issued 12; Clinton, 37; Bush Sr., 44; and Reagan, 78. Oh, and Romney, as Governor, used veto powers 844 times (with 700 overridden).

Regardless, and to reiterate my point, it is CONGRESS that does the "doing". Executive powers are no excuse for congressional inaction. It is Congress that has failed the American people.

It is a group problem. The Senate does not want to pass a budget and the President can't get his on party to think of the country. The President is the leader of America and it is ideals that help focus the country and if there is no focus then the country is lose.

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/obama.html
Russell,
Here is the National Archives web site with all the Executive orders President Obama has sign since he took office. It totals 135 in less then four years. This his were a president can over ride the congress. Executive priviledge: government right to secrecy of documents: the right of the president and other government officials in the executive branch to refuse to reveal confidential material if this would interfere with the administration's ability to govern.

to ronald

thanks..it occurred to me after i left my comment that arturi was using "executive privilege" when he meant "executive orders..."

they're not all that uncommon and there's nothing unusual about obama's count [currently 137]...bush43 issued 291 and bill clinton issued 363, bush41 [in 4 years] 165 and ronald reagan 380

AND BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE!!!! Bravo Justmark!

lyn, I fear you may be correct in your analysis.

As Benjamin Franklin said "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."

Speaking about England Benjamin Franklin also said "…I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means.—I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it.

In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.

...are our poor modest, humble, and thankful; and do they use their best endeavours to maintain themselves, and lighten our shoulders of this burthen?—On the contrary, I affirm that there is no country in the world in which the poor are more idle, dissolute, drunken, and insolent. ...you took away from before their eyes the greatest of all inducements to industry, frugality, and sobriety, by giving them a dependence on somewhat else than a careful accumulation during youth and health, for support in age or sickness."

I wonder what Mr. Franklin would say about the USA today?

Lyn and MZ -- both of you are so right. It was hard for me to understand why anyone would vote for Obama and four more years of his lack of leadership and out of sight spending spree -- until I learnd the stats on how he had doubled the number of people on the government payout -- then it make sense. But as MZ states, this will be the doom of our great country if allowed to continue. I believe in helping people when they need it, but you can't help them so much that you take away their dignity and self-initiative to help themselves. My biggest hope is that people will edcuate themselves about what Obama has done to our great county, and give serious thought before making the most important decision for our country in our lifetimes in November.

I laugh when people blame the President for the divisivness that has griped the country. If you look at it, its CONGRESS who has created the divisivness. Its the outright LIES being peddled by SuperPacs that support Mitt that creaeetd the divisivness. It's the BIRTHERS and TEA PARTIERS that created this divide. It's people like Ted Nugent and Hank Williams Jr. with their hate mongering speech that created this divide. The Presdient has just had to sit back and take it: If he fought to hard, it made him look like he's "hiding" something. If he fought to little, it made him look like he "agreed" with the rhetoric being spewed... What say you about the birthers and tea partiers, do they NOT share any blame in furthering the gap? By parading their not so conspicously hidden racial agenda's???

Dear moo-moo
I do blame some of those most recent (2010) rep's/tea partiers for hindering even their own party trying to get things done. But, I blame Obama for how he was in those first 2 years when he thumbed his nose at the rep's and decided that he really didn't need them much -so why try to work with them. Both have a part in what happened. But at least I am willing to see that, are you?

laurie the patch actually is not guilty of bias obama is buying ads on the internet everywhere and romney has had a few here and there (laurie buy some ad space and post one yourself) PS volume control works great

George Bush still holds the record for the most vacations and the most money spent. His trips to Crawford added up to over $20 million.

I could dispute every single point you made in your anti-Obama tirade, but I'm actually too exhausted right now. Just vote for Romney and everything will turn out fine for you.

Dan, go ahead and take a little nap. Get yourself all refreshed, maybe grab a cup of coffee, then respond to each point. I for one am quite interested in your rebuttal.

Why, MZ? So you can issue me more "points". Even if you hear facts, it would be worthless due to your ultra-partisan, kool-aid drinking mindset.

Dan, If I pinky swear not to issue points will you do it?

I'm not so much a partisan as I am an idealogue and I prefer water over Kool-aid. I do however appreciate facts. Most of the disagreements here are over opinions and not facts. Facts are stubborn things, so do us all a favor and educate us. Who knows, you might even convince some to drink your flavor of Kool-aid.

No points, I always abide by the pinky swear.

SOOOOOOO George Bush got your vote the last 2 times around tho didn't he? I laugh at your hypocrisy!

Mooin' Maggie, I certainly didn't vote for Al Gore or John Kerry. Nothing hipocritical about voting for the most conservative person who is electable. Unfortunately he turned out to be a big spender. Not much of a fan, but certainly better than the alternatives.

I laugh at your misguided liberal hypocrisy.

Then...so much for your capitalism and trickle-down theories?

Oh and please, the kool-aid joke is just TOO tired...

You are now on the list

Melinda-
I've heard from you and other Republicans on these blogs that tax dollars pay for abortions. Please give me some factual evidence of this? From what I've researched, it is not allowed to have taxpayer money pay for abortions, except for rape and incest. This is where I got some of my info:
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/04/the-abortion-issue/

Melinda!! Lets all forget that once upon a time that Mr. Mittens was PRO CHOICE and made MILLIONS off of an ABORTION DRUG... oh wait.. maybe you just blocked that out

Annette, it looks like your original post and my witty response (if i do say so myself) have been deleted. Not sure either of us broke any rules. Oh well.

The purpose of the electoral college, and why it is still needed, is it keeps things fairer. It keeps just a few largely populated states from grouping together and making smaller states meaningless. It worked exactly as designed, thank God.

We have a democratic republic, not a democracy. Democracy is mob rule. (think OWS "this is what democracy looks like!") The influence of the states would also be further erroded.

I wouldn't worry too much about what other countries think of us, they tend to have their own problems they should be worrying about. I would worry more about who you think has the better plan to control federal spending, balance the budget, and chip away at some of the deficit.

Oh didnt you hear? That the Mitt/Ryan campaign has been out right lying in their TV ad's and have been refusing to pull them? I'm happy that the Dem parties lies can be held in your hand while the Rep party lies are being promoted, disseminated and are spiriling out of control.

So which is it? People who use contraception are sleazy, or people who use contraception are smart?

WOW Laurie! Have you not heard about rape? Now I'm totally Pro Life, will always BE PRO LIFE! But I am not so IGNORANT as to believe that abortion does not NEED to exist..? Incest babies? Will you raise them yourself Laurie? And then tell them their their Father is really their Grandfather and that their Mother was raped by him? Or would you really force some innocent girl to go through the horror of bearing the child of someone who brutalized her.... you mam sound like a misogynist.

Democracy is certainly mob rule. But after re-reading your original post above I must admit that I was inferring something you likely weren't implying. No where did you say you wanted a true democracy in your original post. If I make the assumption that congress would remain in place then we would not be a true democracy we would just have a different way to elect the president. Please accept my apology for the invalid inference.

With that said I still prefer the electoral college and see no need to replace it. I have yet to hear or read any convincing argument that the states would be any better represented. I would assume that only the largest cities would get any attention at all.

I really don't think you would want to live in pure democracy. In a pure democracy, 51% beats 49%. In other words, the minority has no rights. The minority only has those privileges granted by the dictatorship of the majority.

Definition of DEMOCRACY
a: government by the people; especially: rule of the majority b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
b: the common people especially when constituting the source of political authority
c: the absence of hereditary or arbitrary class distinctions or privileges
We live in a Republic

a: a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president
b: a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government
c: a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law

I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

If you look in the pledge it does not say Democracy it says Republic.
http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

As well as Mittens! He made Millions of his Pro Choice stance in Mass... and now he's Pro Life?? Curiouser and curiouser

Amen. We need to get back to the community working together to take care of our needs and not hoping for someone from DC to come in and give us our own money back. They think they are helping all they are doing is hurting the community. After the Supreme Court ruling on Obama care I learned one thing a tax is a penalty or a penalty is a tax. “The Anti-Injunction Act provides that “no suit for the purpose of restraining the assessment or collection of any tax shall be main¬tained in any court by any person,” 26 U. S. C. §7421(a), so that thosesubject to a tax must first pay it and then sue for a refund. The pre¬sent challenge seeks to restrain the collection of the shared responsi¬bility payment from those who do not comply with the individualmandate. But Congress did not intend the payment to be treated asa “tax” for purposes of the Anti-Injunction Act. The Affordable Care Act describes the payment as a “penalty,” not a “tax.” That label cannot control whether the payment is a tax for purposes of the Con¬stitution, but it does determine the application of the Anti-Injunction Act. The Anti-Injunction Act therefore does not bar this suit. Pp. 11– 15”
www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-393c3a2.pdf
We need to learn to take care of each other and not wait for someone else to fix a problem.

soldiermom you are wrong about your soldier son. Because of the lawsuit and subsequent Federal Judges ruling your son WILL be able to vote the weekend before election day. The lawsuit and subsequent ruling merely said that same right to vote the weekend before election day must extend to all Ohioans. Nobody is restricting anybodies right to vote because of this ruling.

Bill,
You are right. However, it is a fact that will be wasted on the right wing because they won't want to believe it.

thank your son for me for standing on that wall

What does the DNC platform have to do with what religion you believe, what God you pray to, or if you don't believe at all? The DNC can't make you believe anything, it is just their platform, you can choose to disagree with part of it, all of it, or none of it.

You rant was amusing though, keep them coming!

nAt old boy-
When you say " I don't care what they do in the Middle East as long as they don't bring that crap over here."
You really show your ignorance. If and when they do bring their crap over here, you will be lined up blaming anyone and everyone, probably the republicans first, for not being more concerned about the Middle East.
So, if you think we should just sit back and wait until they bring that crap here and then worry about it, may the consequences hit you first.
Some post logical,debatable comments. Not sure why you post.

Haliburton does not own the oil fields in Iraq. From BBC 2009. It is Euorpe and China. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8407274.stm
I not sure if you all remember that from the 1970's till 2001 we were attacked by people from the middle east and did nothing. The countries we went into but Iran had a hand in the attacks on us and Isreal. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/usvictims.html
We protect Isreal becacuse they are friends and they have a right to life in peace. Would you not protect your family and friends from attacks if you had the chance?

Libya, Afganistan surge, Drone strikes in Yemen, Pakistan, and the CIA in Syria don't count?

Trickle up economics have worked so well that there are more people out of the work force than any time in the past since Jimmy Carter. More men out of the workforce than any time since 1948. 368,000 people dropped out of the workforce last month. I am sure that GWB somehow magically caused them to give up even looking for a job.

The question I have for Obama supporters is what makes you think things will change over the next four years? What policy will the Obama administration put in place to change anything? What are his proposed solutions? What have you heard that convinces you anything will be different or get better? You may not approve of Romney and Ryan but why do you approve of Obama?

Just like the Democrats did to Bush 43, Bush 41 and Reagan. Just like the Republicans did to Clinton and Carter. You have ideals and you let people know what they are. Obama is not the only president that had people stand up to him. I don't understand why you think Obama should not have to answer questions or we can't point out the problems. Down grade of the dollar and the credit of America... first time in history (2 years after taken office). House hold income down, unempolyement up after all the government sending. GM working with China more then us and is looking at going into bankrupcy.http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2012/08/15/general-motors-is-headed-for-bankruptcy-again/
Chrysler is not an American company it is Italian. So how did he save the American car company? Ford is the only car company that did not take a hand out and it is hanging in. Then you have all the other car companies from other countries building cars here. So he did not help all he did was waste money. I also think Bush started the bailout. (I did not like it when Bush did it) I could go on..

Youtube?

Who fact checked it. Or do we have to take your word for it. Oh, I know it's on Fox so it must be true!

Unfortunately, we have had a president and his administration for the past almost 4 years who has preached hatred, racism, devisiveness, and nannies who expect the government to give them everything they want without having to work for anything. Our country was not like this before Obama took over! At least The Patch is offering us a place to voice our opinion -- even if we don't all agree.

Arturistar-
Well said.
Maybe if Obama had learned from Clinton on how to work with the other party, just possibly the last 3+ years would look different. And, some of those who voted for him would not be looking for a replacement. When you are campaigning, you can say things to try and get votes, like that you want to work with both parties and that you want to lead from the middle. But, Obama, like many, has let his true colors show - that he really rules from the left.

I don't know were you are getting you info. The income for a family has dropped by 7%. Unemployment is higher then what was under Bush. I had a full time jump under Bush and for the last 4 years I've been part time. The numbers are against Obama all around. Job maket is flat and gas prices are high. You can go to the labor web site. http://www.bls.gov/
This country is a country of hardworking people that came from nothing and made something out of themselfs. We didn't need a big grovernment telling us what to do and how to do it. We also did not need help from brith to death. I'm a proud American that still believes in the Constitution and the free market system the system that got us through 236 years. A system that took us from a rag tag group of States to a power house around the world. A nation bless by God, a nation that has helpped more people then not. Think God for our soldiers with out them we would not have the rights we have today.

You mean America's rich like obama, pelosi, reid, movie stars, and bloomberg? Stop talking out of both sides of your mouth. "1 percent of Americans are millionaires." "47 percent of House Reps. are millionaires." "56 percent of Senators are millionaires."
"What would the country be like if our representative government was actually representative?"

As for me I want my president to be as rich as possible with money he earned before he got to the presidency, not after. It shows he knows how to handle money. Something his president is sorely lacking.

IF you go to Factcheck.com, you will find an unbiased review showing that Obama and Biden's speeches had many more lies than Romney and Ryan. It is because so many of the mainstream media not printing the truth that makes it difficult for many voters to make a good decision. Things have gone so badly with Obama, that we need to take a chance on Romney. At least Romney would stay in Washington and lead, whereas Obama has spent much of his 4 years golfing (104 times), fund-raising (205 times), private parties almost every week at the White House, and traveling around the world apologizing for America. Obama has raised the deficit to over $16 trillion putting our country in debt to China and other countries who hate the US. He just gave the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt over a $billion! His overboard spending has also paid for his family's expensive vacations ($4m last Christmas alone), increased White House staff to pamper his family (he flies in his personal Chicago trainer once a week for private sessions for him and Michelle), and we are borrowing $.40 for every dollar he is spending. These things can be verified by non-partisan fact checking. Everyone knows the Washington Post, US News, and most of the mainstream media are left wing organizations that you cannot believe to provide the truth. At least Fox News provides both Democrat and Republican sides.

The name is Ron Brough get it right. I would say in your own words Obama doesn't gave a damn. He is also a milliomaire and he wont take care of his own family. IE is brother. Go watch 2016. It is rhe rich that pay for all those free government programs you use. You don't know your history Israel is a soverign nation and has been for generations. It was their land from the Roman times and all they did was take it back. They are also the ones getting bombed weekly. I'm sorry you are so made at the world you can see stright. I hope one day you can fine some peace. God bless.

You are not well informed about millionaire presidents, including Kennedy and Roosevelt and even George Washington, who were great presidents and cared a great deal about our country and ALL the people, especially the poor. Romney gave his inheritance from his father to charity, and all the money he has now has been earned honestly and intelligently. He doesn't need to become president to become rich, like Obama did. Obama was not rich until he bacame president, but he is now a millionaire. Obama only wants to give to the poor to get the votes he needs to get elected. What did he do to help anyone in his first two years when he had both the House and the Senate on his side... nothing! Now all he does is blame the Republicans for the deadlock in DC. I am continually amazed at how his lies and promises are still believed by so many people. It seems the Obama supporters are either ignorant or want to take advantage of the government taking care of them at the expense of the 63% of people who are now employed. Obama supporters need to become educated so they can make an informed decision.

It is funny that you dispise what made this country so great and free. It is also what helps people around the world. England helpped Israel reclaim her land and they have been taken care of it and making it a livable place. I don't want to see any of my family (I come from a long line of military personal) members that are in the military die or hurt. Every one who wears the color of this nation is my brother and sister. I never had the honor to wear the nations uniform. I have worked in Houston and have been shot at and helped people. What have you done? Besides act like you know more then the people that put their lifes of money on the line for themselfs or country.

Do you not know that The New York Times is a biased left-wing newspaper? I would take anything they publish with a grain of sand. What you state does not even make sense. IF the Senate voted for the bill to cut VA benefits, it is the President Obama's Democratic Senate who controls the majority that passed this bill -- not the Republicans. It was President Obama and his administration that "outed" the Navy seals who killed Osama Bin Ladin, resulting in making them a target for the enemy who have already killed more than one of the brave Seals that did the job that Obama took crredit for. Obama also gave out confidential national security information that has put many service men and women in dire danger and turned our friends against us because they can't trust us. It is also Obama who is fighting to cut our defense spending -- putting our troops and country in peril. How patriotic is that for our President looking out for our brave and honorable Vets?

uh huh if its in the new york times it must be true

JR-
If they are "secret" bank accounts, who told you?
If he put money someplace else, why?

Joseph, it sounds like you fall into the huge category of people who are jealous of how much money Romey makes. If you were to check facts, Romney gave away his entire inheritance from his father to charity and he earned his money honestly and with hard work and intelligence. He has paid US taxes on every penny he has earned, still gives 10% to charity, and so what if he wants to have some of his hard earned money in oversees accounts? Why continue to pay taxes on money that has already been taxed at least one or more times in the US? With the US heading towards a fiscal cliff due to Obama's excessive spending, sounds like a smart thing to do if you asked me. Too many people do nothing to improve their lives other than complain and whine about what someone else has.

Romney and Ryan at least have a plan to redo our tax code to make it more equitable and fair, and to balance our budget. Obama has not passed a budget since he has been in office. How can anyone run a household, much less a country, without a budget. Obama's only plan is to keep spending and borrowing from the Chinese and other countries who hate the US and putting our country in harm's way!

Speaking of millionaires and money: One more thing... sounds like you don't know that since becoming president, Obama has also become a millionaire? So much for hating millionaires! If Romney becomes president, I doubt if he will charge his family's multi-million dollar vacations to the US Taxpayers, the way Obama has. ($4.2 million for Obama's family's Christmas vacation to Hawaii, not to speak of the multi-million dollar fiasco to Spain). How much do you spend on your vacations? Obama's costs to run the White House increased by a huge amount just to live the life of a "millionaire" - all at the tax payers expense. You really need to get your facts straight before complaining about Romney's money and how he spends it. At least Romney is spending his own hard-earned money -- while Obama is living the millionaire life style on the money we all work so hard for and pay taxes for. There is something wrong here, don't you think?

I am sure the IRS will be all over Romney any minute now...just wit for it. Keep waiting. Go ahead and hold your breath.

Obama has how many tax cheats on his admin? How many did he nominate that didn't make the cut due to tax issues? Did you vote for John Kerry? Ask him about his yacht and what he does to avoid paying taxes on it.

Romney is probably audited every year.
People with his income level are audited on a regular basis.

Lyn, Bain capital told us b/c they were legal bound to disclose the accounts they had in Sweden, when the US investigated that, they found that Mitt had accounts there too...

Miss moo-moo
When you complete your 1040, on schedule B, there is also a question, or 2, regarding foreign interest. And, if required because you have a financial interest,... in foreign entities,..., then you as an individual are also, as you said, "legal bound to disclose the accounts" on form TD F 90-22.1.
So, you think that Bain discloses but not Mitt?

Yes, it is sad that these right-wing organizations are playing dirty Chicago-style politics. It is even more sad that so many honest American's are believing their lies. The only positive thing that this does is provide us a an opportunity to set the record straight and hope that decent and honest people will be able to determine the truth and will vote these people out of office for the sake our our country.

left-wing
and "Hay Farmer" is another one

I think you are confused. Why would a right-wing organization post something that bashes Romney/Ryan?

He meant left

The way its a shame that Republicans have been denouncing an entrepeneur in FL b/c he hugged the President??? You should see the AWFUL things Romney/Ryan supporters have been posting on Yelp... You shouldnt address the kettle until you've had a look at your OWN pot.

Miss moo-moo
I don't know/do Yelp. Sorry. Just this little local Patch and my comments are directed at that. And if some group is using a similar local social media for the same purpose, I would not agree with that. But, some of us are only limiting our comments to this area and do not appreciate what happened. It diminishes the integrity of this site.

Mooing' Maggie, we're the comments as bed as the ones directed at Mr. Cathy and Chik-fil-a?

Was your pot and kettle comment some sort of "dog whistle?"

Yeah, like Obama said in his 2008 Presidential speech - he believes that there are no red or blue Americans, or right or left Americans, there are only United States Americans. How long did he follow through on that? He completely blocked out Republicans on every meeting he had and bad mouthed them with vicious hatred. If you listen to his speeches, and his administration, he has divided the people in this country more than any president in history. So put the blame for our divided country where it belongs -- in Obama's lap.

Actually it was the Republicans ("our priority is making sure Obama is a one term President") who blocked Obama on everything. So the blame for the divide is right where it belongs, on Congress and it's 20% approval rating.

Bill-
So you have 1 idiot (Mitch M.cConnell) making that statement and wanting Obama to fail. You can't lump all rep's in with him. Just like I hope Obama, Harry and Barney don't represent all dem's.
And why is it that people just do not want to remember that during Obama's first 2 years he had the majority in the House and Senate? That is when he thumbed his nose at the rep's and HE did not work with them. And then they lost the House and cry its the rep's fault that nothing gets done.

Perhaps the lack of memory is due to short term memory loss from hanging out with the Choom gang.

Does it damage the brain?
Then should we be worried about Obama?

That 2 year fallacy has been debunked repeatedly, why do you keep bringing that up? He had the majority in the House yes but Obama never had 60 Democrats in the Senate. Never.

Oh, I keep bringing it up? When were all those times?
There was even a period in the first year when the rep's had only 39/40.
Besides, if you have a pres who is willing to work with congress, you will still get votes from the other party - remember Clinton years? How can you sit there and deny he arrogantly went about business without regard to the rep's? And, I am not defending the actions of those new ones voted in, in 2010 - they didn't help matters by preventing even their own party from trying to work with the dem's.

http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/republicans-unprecedented-obstructionism-by-numbers

http://www.mauinews.com/page/content.detail/id/564775/GOP-uses-filibusters-to-obstruct-Obama--Democrats.html?nav=18

Actually my 20% figure was too generous:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/congressional_job_approval-903.html

Bill-
Google your group you are using "crooks and liars"
and it says "A politically left blog focusing on political events and the news coverage of them."
Do you really expect people to follow your links for unbiased info to backup what you say?

OK here:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/21/opinion/zelizer-congress-polarization/index.html

And here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/dear-media-tell-readers-the-truth-about-gop-filibustering/2012/04/17/gIQAIumNOT_blog.html

More:

http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/article/20120911/WDH06/309110028/Letter-GOP-today-extreme-ineffective

still more:

http://www.salon.com/2012/07/17/gop_filibusters_for_secret_money/

Bill-
I started to check out your first 2, wanting see what cnn and washington post said, but....
then...
all you cite were just from their blogs and opinions.
Moving on....

Patch-
This is the 4th poster in 2 days posting the same "comment" around the country on the Patch network.
This is NOT an article he/she linked - it is a blog, opinion. And the poster even incorrectly states what is in the blog.
The Patch should be for local comments - not political propaganda supplied by some group.

Get ready for more comments from the paid Republicans on the patch about this. You know who they are.

Bill- Enlighten me. Who are they.

Whale Ofaguy, your repeating comments are still untrue as they were the first time you posted them! Can you not come up with anything new?

Well, I can: Obama is cutting $1 Trillion dollars off our national security budget, and is over his deadline promise to address this issue. He had promised to provide a report by September 6, but he is too busy campaigning to honor his promises. If you don't think this $1T cut is going to put our Veterans in harms way, you are just ignorant. It's not Romney/Ryan who is putting our Veterans at risk, this is all on Obama! Get real and tell the truth!

How did Obama spend 9/11? What were his reponses to Lybia and Egypt and why was it disgraceful? Please, don't leave us hanging!

Yes, it was disgraceful! Add to the disgrace, the fact that Obama is giving billions of dollars to Egypt and Pakistan trying to buy their friendship and showing them how much he supports them -- that he is willing for the US to borrow this money from China and add to the taxpayers burdensome debt of $16 Trillion to give to our enemies. Unbelievable!

Here is what the President said after the attack in Libya:
"I strongly condemn the outrageous attack on our diplomatic facility in Benghazi, which took the lives of four Americans, including Ambassador Chris Stevens. Right now, the American people have the families of those we lost in our thoughts and prayers. They exemplified America's commitment to freedom, justice, and partnership with nations and people around the globe, and stand in stark contrast to those who callously took their lives." -President Obama.

What do you think he should have said? Or done? Should he send in the 7th fleet and bomb them into the stone age?

@Arthuristar FYI: China holds less than 10% of our Debt so that Faux News talking point is another lie from the right.

10% of $16 trillion is still $1.6 trillion - not a drop in the bucket!

But the actual amounts held through June, 2012 by foreign countries can be found here:
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfh.txt

http://www.businessinsider.com/who-owns-us-debt-2011-7?op=1

From the link:
"If you ever try comparing the debt situation in the US and Japan, someone will invariably say: Well, Japan can afford a lot more debt because it's all domestically owned, whereas US debt is owned by the Chinese.

It turns out this isn't really true, though unfortunately this destructive myth continues to dominate political/economic debates.

Yes, China holds a lot, but they're not dominant, and when you add it up, most debt is actually domestically held, just like in Japan."

Which proves that when you parrot Fox News with the statement that we are borrowing money from China it is about 90% false.

why is it disgraceful that the President led the 9/11 memorial at the Pentagon?

Bill-
How can you disregard $5.3 trillion in debt held by foreign countries, which is 48% of the public debt and 34% of total debt? These numbers are from the U.S. Treasury - not any news agency or blog or opinion. Just factual charts provided by the government, with no one putting any spin on them - just the facts.

Lyn-

I don't think he was trying to disregard the amount of debt held by foreign countries. I think he was just trying to debunk the popular myth that most of our debt is held by China. The actual amount is slightly less than 10%, and while this is certainly not an inconsequential number, it does not qualify as "most."

@lyn I was replying to the poster (who, like the good Republican he is), was parroting the party line of "borrowing money from China." I correctly pointed out that that statement is 92% false. And why is our debt all of a sudden a problem? Why were you Republicans not playing chicken little when Reagan, Bush and Bush2 racking up massive debt? Why is it OK for a Republican to triple the Debt like Reagan did? Why is it OK for Bush to double the Debt? Why is it OK for Bush2 to double the debt? Why is it when It's a Republican in the White House deficit spending is OK but if a Democrat is in there it's Armageddon?

And you also need to learn a thing or two about how our debt works. We are not "borrowing money." The Government issues Treasury notes and Savings Bonds to cover the spending. It is very doubtful that the holders of these T-Bills or Bonds will all of a sudden turn them in and demand money. If that happened the value of them would drop like a rock and all their holdings would be paid pennies on the dollar.

Bill-
Excuse me, but when one has debt, they have borrowed - quit putting a spin on things. This is amount that is owed because another gave you funds.
And regarding the debt under Bush, I do not agree with what he did all the time. I wish he had not returned money to taxpayers - remember those checks and amounts you claimed on your 1040's? Why, when we were having deficits? But, there are also times when the debt will go up - like during wars, whether you agree with them or not. But, when Obama has escalated spending and increased the debt in 3+ years by more than what Bush did in his 8 years, don't you honestly think there is a problem? And, remember Bush came in after Clinton and Barney decided everyone should own a home - so the economic crisis had already had its seeds planted.
I would like to think that I try to see both sides, and as I have said, I vote both Rep and Dem. So, I don't think I can really be pegged as one or the other. But when it comes to the economic part, with my business,legal and tax knowledge - I cannot help but agree more with the Rep. Although I would like to know what the Rep see wrong with Obamacare - but there are things in that which concern me.

You are truly amazing, but not in a positive way. First of all, all automakers lose money on major new technology when it first comes out. I know that Toyota lost money on their Prius hybrid for the first few years that it was out, so the Volt losing money is no surprise, and was expected until the technology can be brought out across to other models to spread the costs out. The Volt, by the way, is having sales increases every month this year. You mention about GM hiring 3,000 Mexican workers at a plant other there, but you don't mention the thousands of American workers that have been hired by GM over the last few years...hmmm, wonder why you didn't mention this? I also just read the other day that GM was hiring 800 workers at their new Information Technology center in Austin, Texas....good news, right?

Lastly, I can't believe I even have to still correct someone on this issue of "we should have let GM go bankrupt like Romney wanted and they would have come out leaner, blah, blah, blah". First of all, GM did go through a bankruptcy, and did shed a lot of over-capacity and old debt. The difference is that the credit markets were frozen (remember the last half of 2008?), and banks and private equity were not lending. Therefore, the government was the only one left to provide assistance, or they (along with Chrysler) would have had to liquidate. Why can't Republicans get this, I have no idea. And by the way, it was a loan!

The other thing I notice about this group of people who are using our local Patch to further a political agenda without paying advertising costs or accounting for what they say,
they never reply to comments directed back at them. They just plant their message and run.

Dan-
I will agree with you, this is very good to watch, to remind people what happened - and he explained it quite well, quite simply, for people to understand. He wasn't as good at delivering a speech as Obama, but here he accomplished what needed to be done in explaining the need for TARP .
And regarding helping the banks, the banks have since paid back more than the government invested.
Your video also reminds people that TARP was under Bush, not Obama.

To followup, the Treasury (the government, that's us) owns 500 million shares of GM - that's 26% of GM. For the government to breakeven on its "investment", it would need to be at $53. Initial IPO was $33. Today, it is trading at about $23/share.
Today, would be about $25billion loss - per the White House.

To my right-wing friend, let me explain this to you. You are talking about one car model losing money. You need to look at the entire company, and as you know, is very profitable lately, and here is text from their last yearly report:

"General Motors posted its largest annual profit ever Thursday, reporting 2011 earnings of $7.6 billion just two and a half years after emerging from bankruptcy."

And Lyn is right, the government does still own about 26% of GM, and if the government does sell now, there would be a loss. Of course, we don't know what the stock will be like in the near future, but as a taxpayer myself, I hope it does get to $53.00 one day soon.

To me, out of all of the wasteful spending the government does (I remember reading reports of billions of dollars missing in Iraq), I feel that saving the auto industry and the hundreds of thousands of jobs with it was well worth the investment. Luckily, I have the time to argue with you this afternoon.

I don't know where you get you information but no apology was given. In fact the president has stated that those who did this terrible deed wil be brought to justice. Stop watching Faux news and get some real facts.

I don't know where you're getting your information either. Here is the real story from AP news. I suppose you will say this is a "liberal media" source, as is the usual response from brainwashed Republicans?

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20120913/DA18I6MO0.html

This guy (Mr. Arturistar) isn't even worth responding to, as his facts are so wrong it's not even funny.

Actually he is correct. The embassy did apologize through their social network feeds. But now since the State Department and the White House have disavowed that course of action the posts have been scrubbed. This is why Romney and the Republicans have been all over the continuity of leadership argument.

Oh, by the way, Obama is still focusing on his fundraising out west as the world is speeding ahead to disaster! Figures -- that is his history! Missing in action!

You mean more propaganda from the Jews

Isreal has a thick skin they have intelligence better then anyone in the Middle East. Isreal is a good friend to America and Obama treats them like trush, just like he does to all of American's friends.

You're right, Ronald, just like Mitt Romney insulting our best friends, the Brits, when he was there recently! You should see the British media roasting him!

Dan, Yeah, Obama certainly didn't insult the Brits when he returned the bust of Churchill and sent the Queen DVDs of himself.

Bill, go ahead and support the Muslim countries over Isreal. I hear they have a real "war on women." in fact, why don't you go spend some time in Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, etc... I am sure they will treat you much better than the Isrealis would. Bring your wife, they'll probably take good care of her.

Of course you leave out the important details, MZ. Obama, when he moved into the White House, did move the bust of Chuchill to ANOTHER ROOM. He replaced that bust with a bust of ABRAHAM LINCOLN. That sounds pretty patriotic to me! The story sounds a little different compared to right-wing blogs.

MZ -
Here is a link to hopefully put this Churchill bust thing to rest, but nice try, though:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012/07/27/fact-check-bust-winston-churchill

Don't you know as soon as Iran gets their bombs built (anytime now), they will destroy Israel first and the US next? They have already laid out and announced these plans. Is your head buried in the sand, or what?

So the bust was returned as I said. How about those DVDs? What is the spin on those?

MZ, just in case you didn't read the fact check link I sent you:

"At the start of the Bush administration Prime Minister Blair lent President Bush a bust that matched the one in the White House, which was being worked on at the time and was later returned to the residence. The version lent by Prime Minister Blair was displayed by President Bush until the end of his Presidency. On January 20, 2009 -- Inauguration Day -- all of the art lent specifically for President Bush’s Oval Office was removed by the curator’s office, as is common practice at the end of every presidency. The original Churchill bust remained on display in the residence. The idea put forward by Charles Krauthammer and others that President Obama returned the Churchill bust or refused to display the bust because of antipathy towards the British is completely false and an urban legend that continues to circulate to this day. " Do I hear you retracting your statement that Obama returned the bust and insulted the Brits??

And what about the DVD's? How do you know the Queen didn't like them? I don't know, do you? She sure seemed to enjoy the Obama's during their official visit to Buckingham Palace a couple years ago.

Obama gave the queen videos of himself, kind of like an Obama greatest hits on DVDs that don't work with the British formatted DVD players. Both are funny to me. Typical gifts to heads of state have somewhat more thought put into them.

Also, you said that the bust was moved to another room, not returned. Do you know that Obama didn't have it returned and the administration only said what it said to save face? You do know that the incoming administrations meet with the curators prior to moving in don't you? Is it not possible that things went exactly as Charles said they did? Was the bust sent back or not? Don't you think the Obamas would have a say in the matter?

Bob, I have also heard of Muslims attacking people over cartoons. Are you seriously comparing orthodox Jews to Muslim fanatics? You do know they would like to kill you just for being an American don't you? Just ask them.

Do you speak for the Brits? Do you know if the queen enjoyed her Obama DVDs?

As far as the Faux news comment, nice one there chap. You know nothing about me, yet you resort to personal attacks telling me I need to learn something. This is a typical response I get when commenting on the "One." Don't worry though, I won't personally attack you for having a different viewpoint than I, besides O'reilly factor is starting soon and I need to make my kook-aid.

Skipped intel briefing, flew to Vegas, went to sleep while American consulate is attacked, tells the world that Jay-z is more important than Isreal, and has the misfortune of a pimp with a limp prerecorded interview air the same day.

He may have bowed to somebody or fishbowled with the choir gang, but that has yet to be confirmed.

Because there are more smart people in Ohio than you think, that's why.

You might want to take a look at how many people in Ohio are getting Obama's handouts. The majority of people I know who support Obama are the ones that are getting handouts -- welfare without having to work, food stamps, extended unemployment, illegal aliens, or people who don't educate themselves on the things that really matter in this election. They watch the left-wing tv stations and never question anything that is said, or more importantantly never even reported about Obama.

....and the White House was given a 48 hour notice of the protests, but did NOTHING to prepare for it! This president was too busy holding fund-raising events in Las Vegas and radio interviews with "The Pimp with a Limp"! This is typical of his ineffective voting of "Present" while he was a Senator. At least then, he was present, now he has gone missing while hob-nobbing with the Hollywood elite and golfing! Obama doesn't know how to manage foreign affairs, so he does nothing!!!

Freddy, what's my fair share?

Heresay! Tsk...tsk for posting this kind of undocumented garbage. Obama doesn't want fair, he wants the government to take over everyone's lives and vote for him for his handouts. For instance, since Obama became president, he has doubled the number of people on welfare, broke the law by declaring that even strong healthy people don't have to do any kind of work to get that welfare! When people lose their jobs, they get up to 2 years of unemployment, then they get to go onto Medicare disabilty that has increased by 54.3 million people since Obama. ALL of this gets paid for by the shrinking number of people out there working and paying taxes. There is no incentive for anyone to try to get a job! Where is the "fairness" of that?

How do people pay their fair share under Obama? You have the rich (business owners) having to pay more in taxes and the EPA also putting more regulations on manufacturing, making it less profitable to run a company in America. How many new federial government mandates are shrinking the economy? The only thing we are going to pay equal on is the $3,000 tax to each tax payer for Obamacare, how many Drs. and nursing homes are hurting under this new bill. Obama has cut billlions in medicare to found is new Obamacare witch we are all ready seeing the taxes on us and the program is still not in force. We will also share in the higher prices at the gas pump, grocery stores, uitlities, the price of anything you buy and your rent. If you want real fair share, the federal government should taxs us all the same, no more then 10% of gross. That also includes bussiness. If you want a fair share of the responsibility.

Just watching what is going on around the world with the anti-American violent protests is a prime example of the effect Obama and his administration and billionaire supporters is having on America. His grand "apology for America" tour in his first year as president and everything he has done or hasn't done since then is taking a giantic and frightening toll on the safety and security of every American -- now and in the future. I plead with every voter to become fully aware and educated before making a choice in November.

This is just another example of the "dirty Chicago-style politics" that seems to be permeating the Democratic campaign practices. The worst thing is that it appears that many Americans are buying their lies and deceit. Thanks for speaking up regarding the Patch posts. I hope they will do more to stop this.

This same comment has been put on over 10 other Patch networks across the country.
Once again, the Patch is allowing free political advertising and permitting them to say anything they want, since they have been getting away with this in some areas. Other Patch editors have the decency to recognize that they should be deleting these hit and run comments by this political group.

All the things you say about Romney are not true, and you know it. And unfortunately Obama is NOT a great president -- I just wish he were. Like many American's I voted for him. I believed his campaign promises, but he has not delivered. He has divided our country more than any other president in history. He has alienated our foreign allies, and our enemies do not respect us any longer. He has bankrupted our country with two major credit downgrades (the first time in history) and increased our deficit to over $16 TRILLION dollars! He has robbed Medicare of over $7 BILLION Dollars. He has doubled food stamps and welfare and now healthy people don't even have to do any work to get welfare, and now almost half of the people in our country on on the dole -- just so he can get their votes. This is just a tip of the iceberg of things Obama is doing to destroy our country. We cannot take another 4 years of Obama. This is the most important vote in any of our lifetimes! Please do not vote him back in.

Yes, lyn, and I posted them there. Your comment is an unqualified attempt to censor the comments of others...just like a Republican soldier...first the lies, then the censorship just so you can slip 'ol lying Ryan into office. Tell readers where lying Ryan hid the cuts to veteran benefits. Tell readers why Romney hasn't released his taxes. Tell readers why Ryan hasn't released his famous budget. The answer is always the same, Lyn......they've lied about them from start to finish. But Ryan has gotten caught more than anybody in political history.

Hence his name...Lyin' Ryan.

Sorry, Lyn, American wants a President with smarts...not EGO...I'll pass on Romney.

Here you go. http://roadmap.republicans.budget.house.gov/plan/default.aspx
Why can't the Demoracts put out a budget? For the last 4 years Sharp the Republicans are the only ones that put out a buget. The Demorcat senate is the ones that kills any budget. Ryan's or Obama's. budget.http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/163347-senate-votes-unanimously-against-obama-budget
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203554104577002262150454258.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/08/30/yes-paul-ryan-spoke-the-truth-about-obamas-fiscal-record/
Here are just a few sites to help you.
Have a great day.

Postman Shark-
I'm all for people posting their comments, backed with facts.
I''m against you posting your 20+ same comment across the country on all the Patch networks, just like the rest of your Southampton group has been doing. You trash the integrity of what this forum should be.
And for your info, I do not like Ryan.
And, Romney has released what was necessary and required. Why do you need to see any other years, except to trash the success of a man? If your issue is with the tax law, take that up with Washington - not a taxpayer who is regularly audited by the IRS and following the regs. I am not wealthy, and I hate defending the rich - but I will defend a person who can be successful and do so legally. If one does not like that -take it up with those who make the laws. And, I do think the rich should pay slightly more in the tier on their 1040 - starting with those making over $100,000. To most Americans, even $200,000 is rich.
When it comes to the state of the nation - Obama has created a real mess that will take years to undo. And, taken this country in a direction that it has never stood for. But, he will get reelected -too many people are now benefiting by what he has done and people vote for what will be best for them. Why would all those who are getting more money from the government vote against him? But the government should not be existing to redistribute the wealth. Personally, I wish Hillary had been elected.

My preference is to have your Southampton group NOT post their comments on this forum and other ones across the country.
Otherwise, I welcome a debate and all opinions based on fact - not the like of yours and your group, which is just garbage being spewed.

Ronald, you mentiion that the more you raise taxes, the lower the intake to the government is. Well, according to this chart, it shows how the Bush era tax cuts are the main contributor to our debt in the coming years, and this is by the CBO projections. See the chart as Figure 1.:
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3036

Dan, you site the cbpp, I'll site The Atlantic.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/07/the-center-on-budget-and-policy-priorities-thinks-were-still-in-the-bush-era/241805/

Exerpt:
"The actual level of the debt incurred by tax cuts passed during the Bush era is represented by the size of the wedge in 2010, plus perhaps a modest amount of interest (interest rates right now are low, and over time, inflation and GDP growth should call that debt to fall, not rise, as a percentage of GDP.)"

"...what that ever-widening wedge represents is the tax cuts passed in 2010, plus the assumption that the Obama administration makes the tax cuts permanent. I know that many liberal groups still see the pernicious influence of George Bush everywhere . . . but does the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities really think that we are still in the "Bush Era"? Is he the puppetmaster who pulled the string and made Barack Obama and the Democratic Congress dance? And if so, how come we passed a gargantuan new health care entitlement, instead of reforming Social Security?"

Hey Dan. If it was true why has it been over four years and Obama only talks about getting ride of the tax brakes? They stay in place for one simple reason (logic) if the taxes cut were stopped the economy would crash. Obama all ready has way to many problems on his plate that is his own doing he does not need one more. Plus that is way the Dems never repealed it when they had the power of both houses for 4 years (2 years Obama was a Senator). You can show me any chart you would like to, what I see is the tax cuts still stand.

Dan-
Again, wondering why you site the links you do. This one is over 2 years old - when the Bush tax cuts were to expire, BUT Obama extended them and added to them. And, don't you realize that because of the extension of these cuts, and the changes that Obama made, now almost 50% of the taxpayers pay no federal income taxes, and many collect that child credit over what taxes they don't owe? Therefore, those tax cuts you do not like, if not there, would increase the low to middle income person $2000-$4000? I assume that is you, and so here you are complaining about those tax cuts - but without them, you would be paying much more. And, if you look at your 2 year old article, it mentions TARP - Bush's program, which by the March 2012 CBO estimates, are only costing the taxpayers now $32billion - and, every year that estimate goes . Also, your 2 year old article mentions the war contributing to where we are. Are you forgetting Obama's role in Afghanistan? Your links are not relevant. Besides, they are usually from a group with political leanings or biases.
HOWEVER, I do think the rich should pay slightly more and ALL taxpayers should have to pay something - IMO! We all live in this country, and why not have the rich pay even 1% more than they are in that top tier - starting with those making over $100,000.

Ronald-
I think one of the main reasons Obama doesn't get rid of the tax cuts is that he knows it would cost him votes! All of us would be paying $2000-$4000 more in taxes and people would be upset at that. He would rather say the words than really follow through, because he knows the repercussions.

Lyn,
In spite of your claims of independence, you are perhaps one of the most biased on the Patch. Yes, the chart I gave was from two years ago..so what? It still mentions the projected deficits going forward due to the Bush (and extended by Obama) tax cuts. Yes, I know Obama extended all tax cuts, but by ONE year. If he is re-elected, I guarantee you he will not extend them on the upper 2% of income earners. I personally would argue that they should not be extended to people who make over $100K a year, but that's another argument. By the way, it seems as though you have not heard Obama's argument of extending the tax cuts for everyone except those who make over $250K a year, so I don't get your argument that it would cost him votes because he would rasie taxes on everyone $2K-$4K a year. If anything, that is what is going to happen with Mitt Romney's plan. As you know, he is going to get rid of tax loopholes to help pay for the additional tax cuts he is proposing, and the middle class is going to have to pay, although he refuses to specify which loopholes he will close. Sorry my links offend you...that must mean that they hit a nerve.

Dan-
First, I must apologize to you - it was Bill, not you who had previously been listing sources that were biased. His were largely blogs, and I incorrectly remembered it was you -so therefore, I made the comment about the sources you give.
HOWEVER, I do believe that if one does list a source, it should be one as free of bias as possible - not one which takes facts and dissects them and spews back what they say was the original info.

Also, yes, I am biased - to the truth and not fiction.
And, although I lean more toward the Rep. philosophy of doing for yourself, there are many platforms that the Dems hold which I prefer.
When Obama first appeared on the scene for all to see, 8 years ago at the convention and then several months before the 2008 primaries, I thought what a great thing it might be if he were to become president some day. But then that January, after learning more about his thoughts on things, I decided to vote for Hillary in the primary. I just did not believe that this man who has always been soooo left would govern in the middle as he campaigned he would - and I was right in that.
I wish the Reps had given us a better choice - Huntsman. I do not like Ryan. And as for Romney, this time it is more a vote of who I think is the lesser of 2 evils, or maybe that I am voting against 1 candidate.

Also, those Bush tax cuts Obama extended for TWO years and he added to them.
Lastly, your links don't really "offend" me, but I was correcting you when you said they were from the CBO, as they were not. Again, I prefer links that contain facts, not bias - from agencies free of agendas.

Lyn-
Thank you for clarifying as to who you meant to villify for posting numerous sites which you feel are left leaning. Going back to my post, which cited the chart from the cbpp, the information that they used to form the graph were from the non-partisan CBO, which they state. I should have clarified that in my follow up post. Also, I have no idea if the cbpp is partisan or not...I assumed it was not, but I admit that I don't know for sure.

LIke I mentioned previously, I actually would have not minded at all if Jon Huntsman would have won the primaries, as I would have seriously considered voting for him. However, as we know, he was not a flame-thrower like the rest of the crowd, and didn't have a chance with the extreme primary voter. I have to chuckle when you say Obama is governing too far to the left, as I feel he is pretty close to the center. Obamacare with no public option (a Republican plan to begin with) just as one example is not an extreme left position.

Lastly, you mention that you had to call me out on my link to the cbpp, as it being a biased site. Why is it that I hear crickets from you when the other right-wingers on here post site after site of ridiculous ultra-biased links? Well, at least we both agree that we don't like Ryan, and that we did like Huntsman...that's a start.

You did not site as a source the CBO (Congressional Budget Office) -a federal agency.
You sited CBPP (The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities) -a think tank, self described as "... working at the federal and state levels on fiscal policy and public programs that affect low- and moderate-income families and individuals."

The Atlantic is hardly right wing.

Anyway Dan, I like the debate. Your chart did not prove that higher taxes increase tax revenue or that lower taxes decrease revenue. It cheery picked CBO data ( no it was not a CBO report) and didn't show any entitlement spending. It was set up to make people think that all other spending is covered without an increase in debt which is not the case at all. You would also have to assume that every other dollar spent by the federal government was worthwhile and better used by the government than by the people.