Home Days was for fun, family and friends. If you want to make a statement, keep it at the school and meetings - not where I go with my family to enjoy the day. Too much "in your face" just turns people away, and does make it look mob-like. Not the proper place to be making a statement. Also, I hate seeing them being worn around town and in the grocery store. Its like constantly hearing those annoying political commercials over and over. The more you herar them, the more you are turned off. At some point, it starts to have the opposite effect on people that you are trying to have.

Please try to wear a "I deserve a raise and you should pay for it" shirt at work and see how it goes.

You can go to the school web page and the information is posted in document links in the upper right corner- the present agreement and the proposed agreements from BEA and the BOE.

http://bbhcsd.org/negotiations/

Jeff
I sincerely thank you for your courage to stand up and tell it like is. You did so eloquently and truthfully last night at the board meeting. I was moved to tears at the display of caring on the part of the high school athletes.
I will be passing on your youtube videos as well.
I hope and pray someone videoed your resignation last night.Did they?

Well said Anna. Teachers are a part of our community and if wearing red shirts raises awareness of that, then I'm all for it. Maybe we need reminded that many of these teachers are also parents in the district, they are paying taxes like us, they have chosen to raise their kids here JUST LIKE US. Brecksville and Broadview Heights used to be proud of the excellent education they provided for their children and I still am. Our schools are an excellent example of public education WORKING in this country. It's frustrating that some are so willing to toss away all of that to prove a point against unions and teachers.

Like my daughter said, "Weren't all of those people complaining taught by teachers as well?" She raises an excellent point that so many of us would choose to forget. My kids deserve the excellent education we moved here for and so do all of yours. Let's pull together as a community and back our schools, our kids and our teachers because they are our future. They are worthy of our praise and support.

I applaude your statement. My husband and I recently moved to this community because of the educational benefits we hoped our children would receive. I AM WILLING to pay the necessary tax increase if necessary...it it much less than paying for private education (yes we did that for 9 years).

This community has a reputation for excellencein education as well as a sense of community. I hope we can work as a community to resolve this issue.

John, I’m assuming you don’t have college aged kids yet. The costs of a quality education can absolutely pay for itself. Because of our AP programs, it is not uncommon for graduating students to place out of otherwise required college courses. I personally know a number of students who started their college careers as sophomores. Due to the outstanding job our teachers did to prepare my kids, they were able to score well enough on ACT/SAT tests to receive tens of thousands of dollars in academic scholarships. This far outweighed the money we paid in property taxes.
Good schools do affect property values. Ultimately the question comes down to “am I getting what I’m paying for?” As a new home buyer, I would see that BBHCSD ranked 4th in the county for student performance but my property tax contribution to schools was in the bottom third (24th out of 31 districts). By any cost/benefit analysis, I’m getting a great value.

You need to give more credit to the student, parents and community. Do you not think there is a correlation between students from a well-to-do area and their accomplishments? Are you so naive to believe that high paid teachers produce better results and are much better than those teachers in districts of not as affluent areas? Just because a teacher receives one of the highest paychecks in the state does not mean they are the best in the state. SO many more factors go into why each student excelled or failed.

Lyn,
You are correct in stating that there are a number of factors that contribute to the success of students in the BBH district. And, yes, to some extent the fact the our students have numerous opportunities available to them does does correlate to more accomplishments just as providing workshops, conferences, and other networking systems correlates to improvements in business or the world around us.

Again you are correct when you say that a high paycheck does not equate to being the best. In many cases, a higher paycheck equates to the number of years a "worker" has been profecting his skill (pay consummate with experience). Workers early in their careers tend to make less money as compared to those with 10+, 15+ years of experience. Many districts have lower average pay because they employ less experienced teachers. I am not saying that all our districts teachers are "good" or "better" than another districts, just that the teachers in our district appear to have less atrophy/burn out and stay longer in their respective positions. For example, how many of our teachers have been hear for more than 10 years as compared to another district?

I absolutely give credit to parent and community involvement in a students education. It takes a village after all…. But it sounds like you are completely discounting the value of a highly qualified teacher. People in more affluent neighborhoods also tend to be in better health because they take better care of themselves, eat better, better preventative care… But how many shop around for the cheapest doctor simply because they are in better health to begin with.
Sounds like you are naïve enough to believe you could pop a “C” level college grad into one of our classrooms and get the same result as the Summa Cum Laude. Our salary structure allows us to hire and retain the best. If the goal is to have mediocre schools then by all means we are paying too much.

Lori-
Your question about longevity on the job is a very good one.
Every time the average salary is presented, the defense is always - our teachers have been here longer and we had to make cuts which resulted in letting lesser paid teachers go. However, we all know the second reason applies much more to other districts. A truer comparison would be obtained by looking at the actual payscale. If you look at the Buckeye website,
http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/teacher-salary,
you can easily see that Brecksville teachers can earn over $90,000. However, if you look at other districts, they do not. So, OF COURSE if you have several teachers earning $90,000 while most other districts have NO teachers earning that amount, the average WILL be higher because you have this higher figure.

The fact that so many are staying is a credit to the district. I know a number of, what I would consider good teachers, left teaching at the HS and MS level and went on to teaching at the college level...better pay and hours, especially when your children are college age...

Please understand, I do not equate longitivity with excellence or productivity. I have seen teachers in this district (as well as others) that I personally believe to be poor or lazy teachers. But like in any profession, keeping good works means needing to pay both the good and bad.

Lori-
Agree, except for "means needing to pay both the good and bad". Once determined bad, out they should go.

Comparing average teacher salaries across districts state wide is simply a means to deflect. Buckeye Institute makes no attempt to adjust for regional cost of living implications. How many actually believe they could sell their home for as much in Guernsey County as they can in Cuyahoga County? The top 3 counties for highest cost of living are Cuyahoga, Franklin and Hamilton Counties. Why? Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati. Guess which counties have the highest average teacher salaries? Cuyahoga, Franklin and Hamilton. If you want salary arguments to have credibility, limit it to districts in the county where we live.

If the goal is simply to reduce teacher salaries, I have three words…. Monroe, Harrison and Meigs. Move to anyone of those counties and you’ll be in the bottom 3 counties for average teacher salaries. Of course you’ll probably earning less and your home will be worth significantly less. The advantage though is math is easier because the numbers are so much smaller.

Scott-
I would not even go to the other large cities/counties you have mentioned.
I would prefer to only compare to other closer districts, within the county and some from the surrounding that are similar to the city. I think Avon, North Ridgeville and Hudson are examples of outside of the county and would make for good comparisons as well.

Scott-
Although this is not the right article for comments on this topic, but as you brought up the poorer counties in the state, one could argue, based on some of the points raised here, that if you were to pay teachers in those counties more, you would guarantee better students and results - and, therefore, those counties would do better and the economy and ... would improve. Thus, the whole state would benefit by equalizing teacher pay. Could this be the very reason the courts ruled that the current way the schools are funded is NOT legal? Yes, for all the children in the state.

Again the deflection. Why do you feel the need to go outside Cuyahoga County to make your point? You cherry picked Avon, North Ridgeville and Hudson outside the county. Why not compare against districts in the county like Orange, Solon & Beachwood?

I’m not sure where you got the idea that I said paying teachers more increase outcomes. Rather it’s the quality of the teachers that has an impact on performance outcomes. My point is that if you want to hire and retain high quality teachers in the classroom, you need to pay for them and base that pay on the market value from which you live. (Pick any county and I’d bet the higher paying districts have higher performance scores over time simply because they can hire better teachers) If all things are equal, why would that Summa Cum Laude graduate come here to teach when he can earn more in Orange, Solon, Beachwood, or even Hudson, Avon….

By the way, I’m not defending Ohio’s school funding methods but until a new program is developed, this is the reality.

Scott-
Wow - You really missed the point. I guess you do not know why I selected these 3 districts in neighboring counties. They have like ratings and were presented for no other reason - THEY VARY WIDELY IN PAY, so I am NOT trying to make a point about anything to do with pay and were only mentioned because they are comparable to Brecksville. However, you chose the 3 higher paid, by average, districts to compare to. I did not have an agenda with my statement - but I see you do - yours being, why not pay as much as those paying more. Unbelievable! First you say compare to the county, then you want just to compare to those paying more. So, what was wrong with your first idea? Did you realize that would mean the teachers would take a paycut?
And, I had been thinking about your comment that it would not be fair to pay all teachers the same in all counties due to cost of living,... I'm wondering how state employee wages are determined. Not knowing, I wonder if all employees at the same grade level in the same position are paid the same throughout the state, or are they paid differently based on where they live. My first instinct was to agree with you. But if the state treats all employees the same, then why not the teachers? I'm really curious how the state employees are paid - anyone know?

Scott-
And once again, you have fallen back on putting the accomplishments of the students solely at the feet of the teachers. You assume, the wealthier districts get the better teachers by paying more so they have better results. The teachers contribute to the success or failure, BUT it IS mainly the individual student, family and community. Where poverty exists, kids are at an extreme disadvantage for many issues relating to mental and physical health, poverty, drugs, violence, and so many other things that people who live in Brecksville do not have to be distracted by. And just imagine how much harder those teachers have to work in those areas, yet are paid less because of the tax base.

And you keep falling back on the same talking point that teachers don't matter.

So same question, same answer:

I absolutely give credit to parent and community involvement in a students education. It takes a village after all…. But it sounds like you are completely discounting the value of a highly qualified teacher. People in more affluent neighborhoods also tend to be in better health because they take better care of themselves, eat better, better preventative care… But how many shop around for the cheapest doctor simply because they are in better health to begin with.
Sounds like you are naïve enough to believe you could pop a “C” level college grad into one of our classrooms and get the same result as the Summa Cum Laude. Our salary structure allows us to hire and retain the best. If the goal is to have mediocre schools then by all means we are paying too much.

You keep trying to spin your way out of this. I never said anything about pay increase. I’m pointing out there is no justification for a cut. Ultimately everything boils down to one simple question. Are we getting what we pay for? As we look at other districts in Cuyahoga County, including Orange, Beachwood, Solon and the other 27 districts that make up the benchmark or market, how do we compare? How does the schools performance rank in relation to property tax dollars spent and how does that compare to the other districts in the county? What are we getting for our teachers salary (background, education, experience….) and are we getting the expected results for that salary? Are they in line with similar districts in the county?

Every county is made up of multiple districts and each district is a single entry in the overall portfolio of the county’s economic framework. You are trying to compare ODE test results, which are standard across the state, and use that to single out other districts in other counties for comparing financial/economic criteria which are not standard. There are 31 districts in Cuyahoga County, many have similar socio/economic demographics, yet you still go outside the county to make a point. It makes for a weak and desperate argument.

OMG!
I gave you 2 high paying districts with outstanding ratings just outside of our county that are similar to Brecksvillle and you still want to argue with me. And I wasn't even making a point about salary. How can you possibly be missing my point? Logic 101.

Again, nice try. You gave me 3 districts outside the county that pay less than BBHCSD. The implication is clear, we pay our teachers too much.

They may not make quite as much, but Hudson's highest are in the $80's. I'll give you Aurora, also in the $80's. If you want to make this about salaries - Nordonia and Ridgeville have outstanding ratings as well, but pay much less. I WAS NOT MAKING A STATEMENT ABOUT SPECIFIC DISTRICTS PAYING LESS. If you wanted to compare to like districts, I was suggesting other nearby districts with like ratings besides those in the county. YOU brought in the higher paid ones.
I am trying to advocate and justify that ALL districts, regardless of ratings, should be equal - FOR ALL CHILDREN, because there are circumstances that effect the type of education a child may receive simply because of where they live. I don't know how many ways to say this. Where is your compassion for other kids? Can't you possibly see the need for a correction? The poorer districts need good teachers probably even more so.

here here

"But, as I've asked a few times and no one wants to answer, why is it necessary to pay teachers more in the more affluent communities? "

Because voters, in the past, have decided so. That's why families move to districts like BBH, Hudson, Stow, Solon, etc. Because of the quality of the district. AND they realize it costs more because there is more offered for the students (electives, etc), which benefits the students.

I don't know where people get this mentality that teachers are so overpaid. And citing "average salaries" doesn't help one's argument if THAT is their "proof". If you have a bunch of teachers who've been teaching for 20, 25, 30 years, then, of course, they're going to make more than the teacher who's been doing it for 5, 10 years.
That's no different in any other profession if you were doing it for a couple of decades. Your salary should reflect that.
Many times I sense the people playing the "teachers make too much card" are just jealous because they aren't making $$ where they're at and are taking their frustration at their failure on the teacher. And the same goes for the same ol' excuses the "just say 'no'" birds always recycle.

mr. wright, not very nice.

A comment was deleted for a personal attack on another user. The active conversation is appreciated, and obviously people won't agree on everything, but let's be respectful. The full terms can be found here: http://brecksville.patch.com/terms

Lenore-
You are right.
Sorry, just had the need to reply to the comments that were made.

Just to clarify: When I say shortfall, I mean what would be the financial impact of these proposals based on the current 5 year forecast, which has projected deficit spending. Would it solve the deficit spending or not? If not, what would the deficit spending be if these proposals were accepted?

5. Priceless!

Why do you have to buy a hole punch, stapler, pencil sharpener, hanging file folders, and desk chair every semester? Do they break that often? As a payer I thought the outrageous supply fees were to cover your expenses.

Lenore,
There was a time when it seemed that you were actually interested in becoming better informed, but now it seems you are interested in "winning" points, otherwise you wouldn't have asked that question or done so in that manner. I was in a hurry earlier or I could have gone on. As for the items you mention, I thought it would be enough of an impression that we are not supplied with many office basics. To be more specific about the desk chairs, I didn't actually pay for them. They were rescued from the dumpster at Ernst & Young downtown when they remodeled their offices several years ago by a social studies teacher, now retired, that worked summers for a moving company. I have three of them in use in my room and the balance of the thirty are used in the department office or other teachers' classrooms. How many businesses outfit their offices like that? There is no general fee for materials at the high school, and our department hasn't had a budget since I can remember. When I need index cards, test answer sheets, transparencies, etc. I have to count out the exact number I need and record it on a register. My secretary in charge of the supplies at the middle school would hand me one strip of staples at a time when I needed them. The fees you are probably referring to are the board approved charges for non-reusable materials like lab manuals or AP workbooks purchased from outside vendors. Remember: average per pupil expenditures, 22nd out of 31 districts in Cuyahoga.

Lori-
Not sure if this helps, but the following site (Ohio Dept. of Education) has lots of data:
http://ilrc.ode.state.oh.us/PublicDW/asp/Main.aspx?server=mstris2&project=ILRC&evt=3002&uid=guest&pwd=&persist-mode=%228%22

It lists, for the year 2010-2011, the average salary was $78,868 and the median salary was $80,292. No data listed for 2011-2012.

I also heard that, but my question still stands. How can we find out who will be in the classrooms with our children unless they are certified/licensed by the state? Those teachers certified/licensed by the state in most (but unfortunately not all) have no criminal felony record. As a responsible parent I will feel the need to know more about those individuals in LOCKED school buildings with my children.

BTW, will we as parents be given the same access to buildings that we currently have?

Thanks, Edward. As a community we can voice opposing opinions and work toward compromise on may issues but it is apparent that all of us want to be sure our children can be provided a safe learning environment :-)

I found this on the net
http://www.sthilarychurch.org/pdfs/newsletters/January2011.pdf
"Colleagues and family members were quite surprised when Bonnie and Frank
Monteleone decided to send their older son, Brock, to a Catholic school. Bonnie is
a high school social studies teacher active in leadership positions in the Brecksville-
Broadview Heights School System, including serving as President of the Teachers’
Association, which involves academic and strategic planning for the district."
"Bonnie is now a member of the St. Hilary School Board, which represents parents and advises the Pastor, Principal and Assistant Principal on school-related matters"
Bonnie is/was [?] vice president of the school board of St Hillary Catholic school.

Seems she knows something we don't?

Troy McClure/Jack...?/Tom Tucker, and now I.M.Wright-
Quit stalking.

mr. wright, chill. all your patch comments seems angry.

Teachers have the option to be "fair share fee payers" and are not required to join the union. We currently have 100% membership in our association because we provide quality representation, member support, etc. The community focuses on pay, benefits and due process issues. We also help members who need support in other areas. We help each other when members are facing cancer, heart conditions, pregnancy concerns, etc. We support each other with membership on committees focused on improving instruction, student learning and meeting districtwide goals. We are a group of professionals.

Stew what up dog r you voting today