LOOK: Huge Turnout for Democracy Day in Brecksville

Residents pack the Human Services Center for first-ever event of its kind in Brecksville.

A group of citizens in Brecksville took a stand against the idea that corporations are equal to people and money is equivalent to speech.

And on Monday night, nearly 150 people packed in the Brecksville Human Services Center to discuss the idea.

Jeff Mihalich March 13, 2013 at 04:01 PM
@Greg Wow, you mean all Corporations are righties? Could it be conceivable that they are big companies run but the left? Move To Amend and your leftist friends are using small-towns governments and populist rhetoric as your tools. The main stream media is not interested in local issues, nor in reporting real news.
Steve March 14, 2013 at 02:31 AM
The answer is obvious Greg. In the light of day this proposal makes little sense. The more that people understand about it the less likely they are to support it. It appears to have been successfully prosecuted in the shadows. It is exactly because it gives covers to unions that it has been given cover. Democracy Day wasn't a bad idea. Hiding MTA under the covers was. We do not trust MTA or its motives.
Steve Bristol March 16, 2013 at 02:55 AM
Rose and Greg Sorry for the absence but one the SpecOps officers KIA by Afghan cops was the son of a friend. Having a current Navy LT and all the pals of his I know plus also having a future USNR Officer, I've been pre-occupied. You've been exposed and, whether you attempt further bogus claims and lame arguments or not, the truth isn't going away. I'm starting to think the leftist extremists all share the same workbook. I saw an article the other day about the OFA (BHO Campaign, Part III). If you just switch out a few letters, it could have been about Brecksville's MTA...and just about any other far left element. I've included a piece: "In yet another defensive maneuver, OFA....reaffirming the group’s commitment to transparency, thwarting special interests, and acting as a nonpartisan organization for advancing the president’s agenda..." “I want to say a word about what we aren’t: We are not a partisan organization." Steve S.---It's up to you and other Constitutional faithful Brecksvillites to organize your own ballot initiative. Don't let these bullies steamroll your area and the great state of Ohio with their Alinsky game plan. No need to get hysterical; methodically keep to the facts and the truth--it's easy to do against their ilk. They will never argue logic; it will always be emotion. Just staying in touch. Steve B.
Rose Petsche March 16, 2013 at 09:38 PM
I’m sorry to hear about the death of your friend’s son. I can't imagine anything more painful than that. I don't believe legal entities are people. I don't believe money should equal speech. That means the more money you have the more speech you have. We should be able to place some limits on the use of money in politics. I don't believe that legal constructs should have equal weight under the constitution as human beings. It's that simple. I don't think it's a partisan issue. I just don't. Others may want to paint this in a partisan manner, but I don't. Of course, this is my feeling on the subject. The people of Montana and Arizona voted for laws that tried to restrict the influence of corporations (unions) and money in their politics. These are conservative states. The Supreme Court threw out those laws voted in by the people. It's shameful. It’s wrong and we have to fight to restore the ability of Congress and the individual states to have the right to place limits on campaign contributions. The only way to do that is an amendment. That's the only recourse we have. Steve maybe you should move to Ohio so you can understand how we were deluged for months on end by unending negative commercials during the last campaign. ALL the commercial time in Ohio was bought up by the campaigns. We couldn't get away from it. Month after Month after Month. It was over the top and resented by everyone I spoke to.
Steve Bristol March 19, 2013 at 03:13 AM
Rose I turn away from political ads and let my answering machine screen calls during election season. You don't like it...turn it off. Ignore it. There's no mystery; you KNOW it's biased. They mean nothing other than money in the broadcasters' pockets. Money DOESN'T equal free speech. PEOPLE vote. Besides, as I have tried to pound into your skull, the media are the biggest campaign 'contributers.' Is there any news publication that doesn't offer editorial campaign selections? Nope. Does their 'reporting' get tilted one way or the other? Yep. That's worse than ANY PAC because people (foolishly) think they are getting news and/or fact. Now THAT'S political power!! Just because people vote for certain laws doesn't make them legal. Let's say that a conservative state passes a resolution that women can't vote...does that mean it's legal? Same thing. Besides, state laws get superseded by federal...and I sure don't want any incumbent politician who would benefit greatly by limiting an opponent's campaign making rules to do just that. The ads are everywhere, OH's not special in that regard. So what? If anything, untruthful ones are going to make me more likely to vote AGAINST the person being promoted. Cont.
Steve Bristol March 19, 2013 at 03:13 AM
I just read the following; it certainly applies here----"In 2010, after the Supreme Court struck down several campaign finance restrictions in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, the Court came under intense criticism for harboring an alleged pro-corporate bias. In response, Thomas reminded those critics that the cause of campaign finance regulation was not exactly squeaky clean. “Go back and read why Tillman introduced that legislation,” Thomas told an audience at Stetson University College of Law, referring to the Tillman Act of 1907, an early campaign finance law sponsored by Sen. Benjamin Tillman, a leading Southern Progressive and notorious white supremacist. “Tillman was from South Carolina,” Thomas continued, “and as I hear the story he was concerned that the corporations, Republican corporations, were favorable toward blacks, and he felt that there was a need to regulate them.” Cont.
Steve Bristol March 19, 2013 at 03:14 AM
cont-- No, Rose...as a long ago Const Law and Const. History student, a long-time 'student' of politics, a participant in same, your group's battle cries are as transparent as (clear) glass. Much like the aforementioned Sen. Tillman, you all desperately want to limit any Conservative attempt to balance the information equation...and you're more than willing to include any conned right-leaning people you can. My presence here is simply to call a club a club (don't want any racist accusations)..and I will continue as long as my presence is requested by friends--and maybe even longer because I despise attempts to limit political discussion. You've already learned that ignoring me doesn't make me go away; there is tremendously important balance to maintain. You guys and all your protestations remind me very much of teachers, who claim they're all about the kids, going out on strike because it's REALLY all about the MONEY and POWER. Oh yeah, I just realized...you have that problem, too. DON'T TREAD ON ME. Steve B.
Steve Bristol March 19, 2013 at 02:12 PM
Rose "...deluged for months on end by unending negative commercials." Closely following thousands of elections on many levels for just over 40 years has taught me that that is simply liberal code for 'you're making my candidate look bad.' Heck, I used it myself many years ago. Funny thing, that interpretation was never used to self-assess. What is it that makes these commercials negative? It overwhelmingly describes one side--usually conservatives--as pointing out how the liberal and his/her policies have been, or will lead to, a bad result. The other typical instance is showing how the left's ads are blatant lies. These are not negative ads. EX: If you posted that I was a drug addict , and I replied that that was not true, my response is not negative. If you posted that my opinions supported drug addiction and my reply showed that they didn't, my response is not negative. Same thing. Last year, we were blitzed by ads from Democrats that were blatant lies; even the Tribune-controlled ultra-liberal Hartford Courant would, on occasion, admit as much. When the target would respond to defend themselves, the Democrat Party would blister them with claims of 'negative ads.' I would love for some of the local RTC to assume some of the load-bearing. We have our own huge battles here; notably local and state budgets, the gun confiscation issue Dems call "common sense gun control" and driver licenses for illegals, which is one step removed from illegals voting. S.B.
Steve Bristol March 20, 2013 at 09:12 PM
Regressive Rose How do you feel about OFA? They're not 'campaigning,' they're not voting, but they sure are the marketing department for BHO and the Regressive liberals. They're all over the media, they even run BHO's twitter account. They supply all kinds of fodder for MSNBC, NBC, CNN, CBS, ABC, Tribune Newspapers. Shouldn't THEY be shut down, too? How about NBC and affiliates looking to hire every single first-term BHO officials? Do you think that our former crook and co-waitress sandwich partner with Teddy K. and one of the main enablers of the entire housing crisis, etc. would have been hired by Hollyweird had he not been a Senator? There are also former Reps who prosper from their former jobs. These examples of money/power are far more dangerous than any transparent PAC. Then look at existing Sens and Reps, and State office holders. They are 'free' to exert all the direct influence they want to benefit themselves and friends. Your efforts are horribly transparent, dangerously misguided and damaging to total public discussion. It's time that people hold you and your ilk accountable for the damage done to this Representative Republic. Steve B
Steve Bristol March 27, 2013 at 01:51 PM
Open question to anyone pushing MTA: BHO Campaign, Jr. (Organizing for America) has joined with several far left groups and anti-second amendment Gov Cuomo in NY to push for public funding of campaigns. They will be throwing considerable money and weight behind other orgs to push the effort. Among these groups is the Working Families Party, a front for far left Democrats. This must present quite the conundrum for you. I mean, here's an outside group pumping out cash and propaganda to influence the outcome of a state issue. The very nature of your group would dictate that you vehemently oppose these efforts. OFA seeks to influence elections and policy throughout the country. BHO is obviously complicit as OFA is selling direct access to POTUS. Now, before you use the battle cry of 'everyone does it,' The Left has claimed BHO wouldn't BE like everyone else. Of course, this is the man who promised to live within public-financing rules only to completely reject the idea for his campaigns. He has zero credibility on almost everything that comes out of his mouth. I'm asking an honest question. Here are directly-connected groups, pumping out money and 'labor' to ram an agenda down citizens' throats. You say you oppose such things--though I have provided factual instances why that's a farcical claim--so what's your stance and what do you plan to do about it? Steve B.
Steve Bristol March 27, 2013 at 04:53 PM
Rose Or...how about the millions Bloomberg, Carrey, etc are spending to push gun 'control?' How about the millions spent--of OUR money--spent by POTUS/VPOTUS/FLOTUS to push for their agenda? Better yet, how about all the state/local campaign stops made ON OUR DIME to support and endorse a particular candidate? Or even to attend their own fundraisers? All they need to do is very loosely tie some bogus non-political event and WE pay for it. There are so many holes in your argument and no amount of crying about only wanting 'fair and transparent politics'--which, as I have fully explained, is a complete misnomer--changes that. Your ilk couldn't be any MORE partisan or LESS transparent if you tried. I hope the citizens of Brecksville can now see through your political machinations. Good luck, my Brecksville friends, if these 'regressives' continue to hold sway in your community. Steve B
Rose Petsche March 27, 2013 at 06:44 PM
Steve, you've been busy on here. To your question, I am strictly for all "legal entities" having the right of corporate personhood rescinded. I don't care which side they advocate for and I don't care about their philosophy. If they are not a human, breathing person then they can be regulated by congress and the states. End of story. I'm not sure what you find so hard to understand about this position. It's non-partisan. It's non-discriminatory. It applies to all "legal entities" across the board. That's my view. Have I made myself clear? Again, this isn’t a partisan issue, in my view. Now, if you see things differently well, that’s ok, too. I just hope there are more ppl who agree with me than you..;> http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate-personhood/ ---> Corporations are NOT people and therefore don't have the same rights as natural human beings <-- ***all your blathering and yammering cannot change that unalterable truth.***
Steve Bristol March 28, 2013 at 07:38 PM
Rose, Greg, Jack, Tabitha, etc. I see my last post was removed. There was nothing whatsoever offensive in it nor did it truly violate any Patch TOS. However, all of that information has already been passed along to and discussed with Brecksville residents. I sure hope they use it to further expose what's going on. Based upon arguments put forward by BCTP, others not put forward, past practices of affiliated and endorsing organizations, and extensive experience with some of those groups, I stand by my statement that the entire purpose of this group and movement is to completely control the dissemination of information and shut down one entire side of it in an effort to control political power. Bottom up, top down, inside out. Good luck, Brecksville and CVR. Steve B
Steve Bristol March 29, 2013 at 02:42 PM
Heh, imagine that I would never have guessed this blue state's Flagship University would have taken such appropriate action. http://today.uconn.edu/blog/2012/04/university-to-discontinue-student-fee-charged-to-support-uconnpirg/ Pay particular attention to the paragraph starting--"Following a routine audit.." Imagine that...forced (at many schools) contribution to an organization that injects itself into local, state and national votes. By the way, they also get funding from hundreds of ultra-liberal groups. Sounds like an outside group attempting to influence local decision-making. Lest you forget, these UniversityPIRGS also often directly/indirectly attempt to prevent conservative speakers from speaking on campuses. Just some more very inconvenient truths. SB
Steve Bristol April 02, 2013 at 03:09 PM
Since BCTP has such close ties with PIRGs--just look at the dais for DDay--here's another interesting link: http://futuremajority.com/node/534 SB
Rose Petsche April 02, 2013 at 05:51 PM
BCTP does not have close ties with Ohio PIRG. We recently met Tabatha from Ohio PRIG and she offered to give us "facts" and "data" about the 2012 election, both federal & state. Are you saying that the information presented by Ohio PIRG was not factual or was incorrect? Is that what you’re saying? Do you have concrete information that casts doubt on the presentation made by Ms Woodruff? I'm frankly tired of your trying to denigrate our group. We are all long-time Brecksville residents who embarked on a quest to bring attention to the issue of money in politics and the effect the 2010 Citizens United decision has had on our federal, state & local elections. You're constant effort at trying to paint us as something other than concerned citizens is, frankly, tiring and says more about you and your quest to inject yourself into our local election then it says about any of us. You engage in McCarthy style rhetoric. Why not stick to the facts and discuss how money in politics has affected all of us rather than your surreptitious innuendo about our group and the way you try to paint guilt by association.
Rose Petsche April 02, 2013 at 05:52 PM
I believe that average Americans are having their voices drowned out in the avalanche of money pouring into our political system. I believe that public policy is not set based upon what is good for the middle class but what is good for those with the most money. Again, hopefully, enough people of good will can see how our economy has been hurt by the policies that promote the outsourcing of our jobs, by the hiding of profits overseas so the payment of taxes can be avoided , by the denigration of our educational system and on-and-on. All of our country’s problems, in my opinion, stem from the ungodly amount of money sloshing around our political system. Pay-to-Play, Crony Capitalism, is the way business is conducted in the USA. The only remedy, and I stress ONLY, after the Citizens United decision is an amendment to the constitution saying that “corporations are not people and money is not equal to political speech and can therefore be regulated.” This amendment will RETURN to congress and our individual states the ability to regulate our elections. I think that’s a good thing for democrats, republicans, independents, libertarians etc…. I don’t understand people like Mr. Clemson, from Connecticut, who want to insist that legal entities are people and that money is speech.
Rose Petsche April 02, 2013 at 06:20 PM
We don't have to just sit by and let our country turn into a banana republic ruled by a wealthy elite. We can take action to stop this...our group, Brecksville Citizens for Transparent Politics elected to do *something* about this problem. It might not be THE answer, but at least we stepped up to the plate and tried to make a difference. I'd be happy to entertain any suggestions by others as to how we fix the problem of unregulated corporate money, money from foreign corporations & vast amounts of money pouring into PACS & Superpacs by all "legal entities" and wealthy individuals. It's the wild west right now in our political elections. How is that beneficial to American small businesses, families and workers?
Steve Bristol April 07, 2013 at 01:22 AM
Rose There's more of a PIRG connection than Tabitha based upon some easily done digging, but the post stating so and suggesting ways for Brecksville residents to do some of their own was removed almost instantly. If you're tired of me then don't respond. I've been waiting for the "McCarthy" comment; very predictable. I was invited into the discussion by some of your very concerned residents who are tired of being bullied by you and your group. The fact remains that you only want to stop ONE SIDE of the situation and you refuse to even address it. The fact remains that none of these corporations can vote and wealthy individuals only get to vote once---as opposed to the pollworker and the other 18 being charged in ONE COUNTY IN OHIO. Or Bridgeport, CT union members handing out pre-filled out ballot sheets. Or.... Repeat after me: ONLY PEOPLE CAN VOTE. I don't understand why that's such a difficult concept for you to comprehend. Trying to make a difference doing SOMETHING sounds like the moves to regulate firearms and ammunition. Dare I ask...How do you feel about THAT? Have a sparkling rest of the weekend! SB
Fred E. Pedersen April 08, 2013 at 07:57 PM
First of all Steve B, let’s get a couple things straight. I for one do not like the your implication that the citizens of Brecksville are incapable of fighting their own battles. You say that you were invited into this discussion by a citizens here in Brecksville. I do not believe anyone from this town would ask you to fight their battle for them. They apparently determined they were incapable of rebutting our arguments in favor of an amendment to the constitution that would restore the power to Congress to regulate political funds contributed by corporations and unions. I don't believe the citizens of Brecksville need any help to argue for or against the issue. I resent you stating that anyone involved with BCTP bullied any citizen of Brecksville. I and the rest of BCTP worked hard to get our initiative on the ballot, voted on and passed by a plurality of Brecksville voters. None of us reduced our efforts to the level of bullying. The bullying was from the opposition who mistakenly called one of our leaders a liar during our first Democracy Day meeting. The fact remains that our efforts clearly have been focused at repealing the Supreme Court ruling which affects both corporations and unions and that was specifically spelled out in detail on every petition we circulated and is, in fact, part of the city ordinance. I firmly believe that our citizens are fully capable of dealing with our own issues without some outsider from the east coast butting in.
Steve Bristol April 08, 2013 at 08:46 PM
Fred You must be the next batter up, eh? How else would I have even known about your town, let alone your group, had I not been invited? I know lots of people who don't wish to engage as I do, or have the info that I do, or know how to get that info. I've passed along quite a bit of that to my Brecksville friends, as in "give a man a fish...teach a man to fish...." Go back and read my posts. I've fully explained how eliminating one 'side' and not the other is, by definition, not non-partisan. I also don't understand how you folks can't grasp the concept that PEOPLE vote. NO amount of outside influence changes that--except for those (as in OHIO, Chicago, etc) who vote many times. Resent all you want. I've dealt with much better bullies than you folks for MANY years. It's ALWAYS fun exposing them for what they are. I'm certainly hoping that those who I have corresponded with--at their request--will now be able to carry the battle because we have our own much bigger fish to fry around here. Oh and, at least until Progressives manage to take the 1st Amendment away--just as POTUS is trying to do in Hartford at this very moment--plus a couple others, I'll still be around. SB
Steve Bristol April 08, 2013 at 08:48 PM
Steve S. Since you may still be checking once in awhile, you may want to call the WAAAAAAAAAAmbulance for your Progressive neighbors. Steve B.
Steve Bristol April 08, 2013 at 09:09 PM
Fred 1) By the way, Steve S. wasn't one of my 'hosts, ' just someone I've come to be acquainted with. 2) I think you mentioned once that I had no knowledge of unions. Well I was a union member--had to be--for ~20 years and I even helped negotiate a contract that was accepted by both sides. I still have friends in a couple different unions--and they couldn't care less about MTA. HAve fun!
Fred E. Pedersen April 09, 2013 at 02:15 PM
Steve B, 1) Why would you think that anyone suspects Steve S of being one of your 'hosts'? Steve S is fully capable of speaking his own mind and does so. 2) I am glad you were a union member, there certainly is not enough of em. That your union 'friends' in a couple different unions could not care less about MTA is of zero concern to me either or anyone else I know. What is important is I DO care. This is fun!.
Fred E. Pedersen April 09, 2013 at 02:39 PM
Steve B, I cannot say for certain whether I am the next batter up but you confuse me with your wanting me to go back and read your posts. I also have no clue where you get the idea that we want to eliminate anything. We do not. This is what happens when someone from the outside tries to stick his nose into a local issue. I also am certain that every single one citizen of Brecksville understands that people vote, it is not a difficult concept. I have never missed the opportunity to vote. I am a person. What it seems you cannot get is that corporations and unions are NOT people. As long as you resort to calling us names I will continue to refute it. We have not done anything that can be defined as bullying, all we have done is put our work ethic out there for all to see. Hard work pays off and it always will. Sometime when you get the opportunity you should come to Brecksville. I would be glad to take you out on my lake and teach you how to fish. I know you will be right at home as there are some pretty big fish in my lake. If not you can fry your own big fish right there in Connecticut. Just in case you are wondering, in addition to working on our local issue, I would gladly serve again to protect YOUR first amendment right you seem to be concerned about.
Steve Bristol April 10, 2013 at 09:10 PM
Fred For the gazillionth time, you're trying to eliminate the money that corps, etc. spend as in advertising. This is usually in reference to Conservative groups. However, as Rose so often put it, you're not concerned with the undue influence that the predominantly leftist media has...or the legions of unions, anarchists, professional protestors, etc that get paid to go into an area on the side of the Democrat Party. In other words, you're eliminating one side of the equation. A perfect example--besides the Progressive (if that's name-calling, you're pretty thin-skinned) MSNBC--is the fact that CNN is running an all-day assault on the 2nd Amendment....designed to convince people to pressure their reps as votes are coming to the Congress very soon. Again, if you don't stop ALL of it, you can't fairly stop any of it. You keep saying that corps aren't people so they shouldn't be able to voice their opinions. Well, I've said a million times that they DON'T vote PEOPLE do...so what difference does it make? You can't have it both ways. Your sarcasm needs work. I know how to fish....and I'm concerned about EVERYONE'S Constitutional rights...but thanks anyway. SB
Steve Bristol April 10, 2013 at 09:10 PM
After reading Issue 25 and the petition, I fully understand how it gained enough sigs to be placed on the ballot and how it passed. There are three possible reasons, the magnitude of each matters not. 1) Some people will sign ANYTHING. Others won't sign anything so I'm guessing that's not too big a consideration. 2) There are a plurality/majority of Democrats, Progressives, Liberals, whatever. Of course they'll sign something that adversely affects Republicans, Conservatives, Tea Party members. A big consideration to be sure. 3) Finally, after reading the BCTP groups posts, it's crystal clear that the actual effect of the Issue is not being mentioned to obscure the fact that you ARE only striving to eliminate just one side's ability to get the word out and/or defend themselves against attack. It SOUNDS good...unless you actually pay attention. I'm quite familiar with that strategy as I've dealt with PIRGS, unions, Occupy groups, and even groups as small as our local or state Democrats (and some republicans--like our State Minority Leadership). It's very effective--as long as people don't do anything more than accept the 'guidance' as truth. I've just been trying to help those who welcomed me aboard recognize those tactics and others...and to do their due diligence on such sanctimonious groups. SB
Fred E. Pedersen April 11, 2013 at 12:53 PM
Steve B I am sorry that after a gazillion times we still don’t get it. I don’t care how much money corporations and unions spend on advertising. I honestly don’t. I just think that spending on POLITICAL advertising reduces free speech and also should be properly controlled by Congress as they have done over the years. It’s not about freedom of speech, it’s about taking it away by political spending unlimited amounts of money without regulation. It’s wrong; the vast majority of the people in this country, Dem, Rep, and Independent agree that it’s wrong. I certainly would not be interested in curbing the free speech of media, whether right or left. I am all for freedom of speech. That’s exactly why I am in favor of restoring to Congress the right to regulate the spending of money in politics. If I had my way the candidates would stand on their own merits period. Oh and I am proud to be a Progressive, it’s the bullying thing that you keep trying to hang on our efforts to get Citizens United turned around like it should be. We don’t bully, we never did bully. We do not understand this thing about stopping all of it or some of it. We do NOT want to stop anything. We simply want to restore the power to control political spending by corporations and unions back to Congress where it belongs. Once again, that’s the issue that has been the issue and will remain the issue.
Fred E. Pedersen April 11, 2013 at 01:01 PM
Steve B When you are wrong, you are really wrong. The 3 point thing, point one as you said can go either way. But I got some bad news for you, point two is completely wrong. The plurality/majority here in Brecksville belongs to the “Republicans, Conservatives, Tea Party members.” We “Democrats, Progressives, Liberals, whatever.” are in the minority. What did it for us is the majority of the people who voted agreed with us, it helps to be right. That brings us to number three where once again you are completely wrong. There was no hiding, no trying to disguise anything. We were open, held forums where opinions were freely expressed, put a great deal of effort to make sure that the citizens of Brecksville had the opportunity to understand exactly what we were trying to do. We did not favor one side vs. another. The ordinance, as adopted is crystal clear. As simple as I can put it is we just want the power that the Supreme Court took away from Congress to be restored. It can only happen in two ways, one, the Supreme Court reverses itself which I for one, hope will happen. The other option is an amendment to the US Constitution. I much prefer the former but will settle for the later if the Supreme Court cannot wake up. Hope those fish are frying there in Connecticut. Mine are pretty tasty here too.
Steve Bristol April 11, 2013 at 06:18 PM
Fred You guys need to get your story straight..you either discuss EVERY aspect of outside influence or you don't. Rose stated you don't care about other than direct money when I pointed out several other ways that 'money' wasn't being addressed. In fact, she had no interest in it. Which is it? I didn't say you were the minority, just that those "believers" would be sure to sign. If you ARE the minority, then that makes #3 that much MORE important..and likely. Rose's own words announce that. Another instance where liberal "money" and unions interfere with elections is the teachers' unions. There is plenty of evidence of the indoctrination of young, impressionable minds in order to expand the liberal base as well as put subtle pressure on parents to vote or feel a certain way. Just since Newtown there have been plenty of articles about teachers/professors pushing their anti-firearm agenda. I don't expect you to admit that you are very wrong, which you are; I just want you to be consistent as well as not wrongly stating my words. Those of you I have dealt with here on this thread are not only extremely partisan (contrary to claim) but also lying by omission. That's just unfortunate for so many. Hey, how about the CVRs who are helping to thwart Obamacare? Congrats! Well done! Not to worry. I'm done on this thread; if people don't get it now they never will. Don't get too excited and fall overboard. I'd be concerned for the aquatic life. SB


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